Remove the Mantaray Horn, NOW !!!

**Old Guy** · April 8th, 2008, 02:46 AM

Boy we can meander around in a thread can't we?

Railroad right of ways- here in Columbus, definitely sold- Inner belt put thru downtown where the old Union Depot was...up north is hiking trail, title owned by city..

In nearby London, sold or for sale. A property I own abuts the now abandoned line..one guy bought the strip behind his property, I'm negotiating for same...BTW taking out RR raised value of my investment substantially.

As far as the Tony clown..his insulting other people here was to me kinda like in grade school when somebody smacks your kid brother...

I can do that...but you can't. forums

**bfish** · April 8th, 2008, 02:55 AM

I can dig it.

While we're on RRs, right-of-ways, and robber barons, here's a rather lengthy, but interesting article I came across the other day;

http://www.mises.org/story/2317

**Audio_by_Goodwill** · April 8th, 2008, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by Todd W. White:
TonyNZ is now banned.

Thank you!!

I suggest you go over to the AudioKarma forums and tell them how much you know - I'm sure they'll be much more appreciative.

Hey, I don't want him over there.... on second thought it might be fun to watch Grumpy deal with him :-)

Is there any reason to keep TonyNZ's threads around?

**vintageboris** · April 8th, 2008, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by acre:
I believe this major shift to the Chinese manufacturing plants is a short-sited attitude on big business' part.

There was a lot of discussion over here in Europe about the benefits and harms of the shift to China. Some serious and sincere businessmen talked about one specific problem - the quality standards in chinese plants and manufactures are definitely under those in the western world. So a lot of overseas businesses spend a lot of money and manhours in controlling and securing the minimum quality of the products.

On the other hand, the rising numbers of workers on minimum wages (OG wrote about those 5$ jobs) anyways can't afford quality products even moderately priced.

The big trouble is definitely that the middle-class, as the spine of capitalist societies, is dwindling. Last numbers from Germany (the former economic motor of EU), show increasing numbers of low incomes, as well as highest incomes...

**selmerdave** · April 8th, 2008, 06:01 AM

The people have to work $5 jobs because nobody (not enough people) will pay the extra $10 it costs to buy the product they used to make at their $25 job...

The problem is the way the general public is led to look at prices in black and white, cheaper and more expensive. I think most of us *would* pay the extra $10 if we put two and two together to realize *why* it costs $10 more and that part of that money is going in our neighbor's pocket who in turn could use that money to buy something that puts money in our pocket - as opposed to $10 less at the expense of the demise of the American manufacturing sector, the financing of poor labour practices in China, lower quality control, a *much* larger portion of your dollars going to the CEO rather than the workers, and the rest of the money going out of the country with nobody but the people at the $5 jobs to buy what pays your salary.

I don't think it's any coincidence that there have been huge increases at the highest and lowest income levels at the same time that we have been establishing trade with China - it's very beneficial for the people at the top and not so much for anybody else (maybe shareholders in the short term..).

Exactly as was said above, wait until twenty years passes, and Chinese workers feel like earning a bit more. Then we pay again.

Dave

**Old Guy** · April 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by selmerdave:
The people have to work $5 jobs because nobody (not enough people) will pay the extra $10 it costs to buy the product they used to make at their $25 job...

Dave

Actually it's a vicious cycle.

Business cuts high paying jobs, people now working ca not afford the higher priced stuff- giving business the excuse to bring in junk- which then leads to more job cuts...

The people with all the capital make a higher profit on low end goods- so people at the top make good money- people in the middle and bottom get squeezed more and more, so they buy cheaper goods...

Wal_Mart essentially killed Rubbermaid- an American company manufacturing quality product.

WalMart refused them shelf space unless they lowered the quality and price. Rubbermaid refused, WalMart would not display their goods, and at the bankruptcy auction the Chinese were there to buy the machinery.

Americans used to make more money and buy better goods. The Upper income bracket figured out how to manipulate the system to pay less and make more.

Been happening for years, but totally out of control since the deregulation started during the Reagan days.

Maybe time to put some of those regulations back?

**Todd W. White** · April 8th, 2008, 05:09 PM

There's a Federal law - can't remember the name of it right now - that makes what Wal-Mart, et al, do illegal.

That law makes it illegal for companies who make things to provide them at quantity discounts to retailers - like Wal-Mart. IOW, the "mom and pop" candy store is SUPPOSED to be able to buy candy at the SAME PRICE a big buyer like Wal-Mart does.

Of course, no one's enforcing the law. So, Wal-Mart comes into a town, puts, say, the local shoe store, out of business, because the local retailer can't buy at the same price points Wal-Mart can. This happened to our local lumber yard/hardware store - Lowe's, Home Depot, and Ace Hardware put them out of business just like that - after 70 years of service to our county, it's gone.

A class-action lawsuit might be the way to go to stop these companies from it, but I doubt it will ever happen...

[ April 08, 2008 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Todd W. White ]

**bfish** · April 8th, 2008, 05:55 PM

When Sam Walton was alive and in charge, things were much different.

Tom Coughlin, WalMart's former CEO, was making $1M/yr salary, had accrued $3M in bonuses, and $20M in WM stock, but that wasn't enough. He embezzled another half million, got caught, and even pled guilty. The court asked for restitution and $50 thousand fine, which he paid out of petty cash. Based on a single report from his MD, the court decided his physical condition (he's an obese monster) might result in his death should he be imprisoned, so he got 3 years home detention, and 1500 hrs community service, which he works off by attending Ducks Unlimted banquets and other lavish paties. Good luck expecting justice from the system so named.

On the surface, it appears that lawsuits and more regulation would be the answer, but as long as big business $ can buy the political process, it isn't.

The article I linked above really put some things in perspective for me, especially since I've had no training in economics. It indirectly even explains some of the issues at hand in the Western Electric breakups. I wish someone else would read it and comment, as my initial feeling is it holds a lot of truth, even though it shook up many of my long-held beliefs.

**Old Guy** · April 8th, 2008, 06:01 PM

Spot on Todd...

One problem is, most people are working more than full time just to survive...and frankly, we aren't taught in school to watch our government.

If anything, it's more like "My country right or wrong".

End result- a population too tired and not educated enough to keep tabs on the government...

Not a super Michael Moore fan- but there is a scene where he is talking to a politician about the Patriot Act...the politico confides that congressmen don't even read most of the bills they pass, just a synopsis. Dangerous indeed.

And how can one possibly be against something called the Patriot act- one of the most damaging pieces of legislation ever passed.